It may not display this or other websites correctly. I imagine it'd be a similar situation as if Gandalf or Saruman got The Ring. RELATED: The Lord of the Rings: 10 Details About Sauron's Costume You Never Noticed This incident, one of those that was invented for the film to increase tension, is an incredible missed opportunity for the minions of the Dark . Why Did Eru Give Men The Gift Of Death And Not to The Elves too? The Ring also has his - what does it say? Gil Galad, and the last alliance also defeated Sauron, without the help of the Maiar, as well. Both the direct and symbolic aspects could have helped Saruman expand his empire by winning adherents and frightening potential opponents. The Great Eye also features heavily in Peter Jacksons blockbuster big-screen adaptations, an ever-watchful flaming orb atop a massive stone obelisk. Yet, he had . Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns. Elbereth Vala Varda said: Saruman fell to darkness regardless. That is, however, a legitimate concern when entering any fight: any weaponry you wield may be captured and used against you. However, Saruman had planned his rise to power much earlier than that. Gandalf - open displays of power versus his restrictions as an Istar. Answer (1 of 12): I agree with what has been said. Even if Theoden triumphed at Helm's Deep in this scenario, Saruman would be relatively safe in Isengard and Aragorn would not be able to look into the Palantir which is what led Sauron to focus his attention in Aragorn's direction and not around his own borders. What happens next? -----Also check out our other channels!The 6th Ranger - (For all things Power Rangers! With the more powerful becoming all the more corrupted. Eomer had no clue about rings and quests. Is there a single-word adjective for "having exceptionally strong moral principles"? Obviously, the Uruk-hai didn't make it back to Isengard, and they didn't have the Ring anyway. So if Saruman mastered the Ring, he would become the . "Saruman would've won if he captured the ring"--Won what? Then Sauron would have had the ring again and either he'd keep Saruman as a servant or just get rid of him for trying to be his equal. I know Letter 246 says Sauron himself did not fear the Ring, would not have hesitated to confront a Ring-wielding Frodo, and could easily have forced Frodo to hand the Ring over. Nor do we how long would it have taken for Saruman to master the powers of the Ring. Not true. In Middle-earth history, it seems likely Saruman arrived before Gandalf did. Meanwhile, Gandalf kept an eye on Bilbo and noticed that he was not aging. It may have taken a while to learn to use the Ring to its full potential, and Sauron would surely have put everything he had behind trying to get it back, but itd be iffy, and he certainly couldnt use the Nazgul or other ring-empowered creatures against the weilder of the One. There would have been one less Peter Jackson movie. The Rings of Power finale took viewers on a ride with solved mysteries, reunions, and goodbyes. And so that's what Gandalf was pretending to do, while they were actually taking the Ring to Mt. Gandalf found out that Saruman had abandoned his mission when the White Wizard asked him to join forces with Sauron. He disobeyed his king but he held his loyalty to his people and by doing so he inadvertently saved Middle-Earth. However, The Lord of the Rings TV series still left plenty of questions for future seasons. If the Stranger is actually Gandalf, think about it from a character development standpoint. Sauron was not a run of the mill foe and an ordinary blade wielded by an ordinary man would not have sufficed. It would be difficult for Sauron. If Saruman had taken and claimed the Ring for his own, Sauron would have been aware of it immediately. He easily would have had mastery over the ring itself. We see this happening when Frodo claims the Ring at the Crack of Doom, and there's no reason to think it would be different for Saruman. Got caught and lost a mind-to-mind battle. The Lord of the Rings. That's information that either could potentially use to tip the balance, but perhaps Saruman would also have had awareness that a contest with Sauron was one that he couldn't possibly win? LEGO did such a great job with the printing on the figures! Galadriel and Gandalf each made a conscious decision not to embark on such a course; but Saruman would not have hesitated. That means Frodo had to destroy the Ring to destroy Sauron for good. In any event, a confrontation between Saruman and Sauron seems as though it would not be a closely fought as the one between Gandalf and Sauron described above; Gandalf was able to cast-out Saruman, so it seems as though Sauron would have more easily had the upper-hand in such a contest. Cookie Notice After that, in the Undying Lands, Sauron was more powerful. He says: "Even reckoned as a lord and captain Saruman has grown very strong Saruman also had a mind to capture the Ring for himself [Sauron] now has Isengard to fear as well as Minas Tirith" The word "fear" seems important here. It was never explained how, but the Elves found a way to block Saurons sight from their Rings. Today we jump back in time to one of our older videos at one of our What If scenarios! Even from afar he had an effect upon it, to make it work for its return to himself. Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. As such, Saruman wouldn't have been able to use the Ring against Sauron, per se. The power they have is to give stature to the wearer in the minds of others, and to enhance the emotional strength of the wearer, in the manner desired by their maker. He and his servants already knew of his involvement in the attack on the Fellowship and the capture of the hobbits. Basically it took a super-human with a super-sword to chop the ring off of Sauron's hand and he only did that with a lucky hit. [ST:TNG] The First Duty what if there had been no accident? He had already copied Sauron in every other aspect. Privacy Policy. By the time that happened, little would be left but the ruins of the world in the aftermath of Saurons great war to regain the ring. And if the hearts of men were not so easily tainted, the Ringwraiths might never have been brought into being. 5 Who controlled the Seeing Stone of Minas Anor? He also had control of the nine kings and such or was supposed to, although didn't Elrond get a ring yet was present at the battle? If the Uruk Army sent by Saruman had captured Frodo and had gotten the One Ring to Saruman, what would Saruman have done with it? The one ring would have made him more like what he was before he left on his mission to middle-earth, only corrupted and evil. After all, he was extremely powerful in his own right. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. 3 Why didnt Gandalf use the giant eagles? Telchar, an uber Dwarven smith who lived in the first age, forged Narsil. A Saruman prequel, an Aragorn spin-off and a Gandalf v the Necromancer thriller could all lead up to the fateful hunt of Gollum and the events immediately preceding the Lord of the Rings (with . Saruman was a wizard and warlord, in a fortress controlled by himself, garrisoned by orcs and men, and separated from Mordor by regions which were not Sauron-friendly. rev2023.3.3.43278. In Tolkiens work, Saruman went to Rhn, shortly after he arrived in Middle-earth, in factjust like the Stranger. This increased his corruption, though he never lost the possibility of becoming independent with the One Ring. Five wizards came to Middle-earth, so the Stranger could be any of them. Although this is never explicitly stated, Galadriel alluded to the Fact that Gandalf, . In the book it is sort of implied that certain beings with sufficient power (e.g. If Im not mistaken, he is Vanyar? Rather, Saruman would have had to dominate Sauron's will and essentially kick him out of the Ring. Whats the threshold of power for a wielder of the one ring to defeat Sauron? In the Silmarillion we have Iluvatar's strongest creation falling from grace.In many ways Saruman's fall is the 3rd Age equivalent. If we have not credited an artist, it is because we could not find an owner of the art. But the Ring and all its works would have endured. Director Peter Jackson adapted the books into six films divided into two trilogies The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit.More popularly referred to as The Lord of the Rings movies, watching them in chronological order helps viewers place certain disparate events . . And hes got a considerable stronghold and force of arms with which to hold off Saurons forces until he can learn to use it. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. In this scenario, Sauron likely would have recovered his Ring and covered all the lands in a second darkness. He definitely volunteered to go to Middle-earth first. The first and most obvious reason Galadriel gets to hang on to her Ring - Nenya, the Ring of Water - from beginning (i.e. When the Valar realized Sauron had returned, they sent the Istari to help the peoples of Middle-earth. He is, I suppose, the same order of creature as Sauron himself, so could he? For one, the Ring wasn't a tool or a weapon of war that anyone could use for anything. What if the Stranger is Saruman? The Lord of the Rings; Middle-Earth (Franchise) entertainment news Saruman also experimented with the making of a Ring of his own. Are there tables of wastage rates for different fruit and veg? Gandalf had the last one, though Im not sure anyone but Cirdan, Himself, and Elrond and Galadriel knew it. Powered by Discourse, best viewed with JavaScript enabled. Even though Frodo had a 4-5 day head-start further east and would be entering the Dead Marshes on March 1st, Saruman would also have had a head-start on everyone else in terms of knowledge and certainty. Who controlled the Seeing Stone of Minas Anor? )https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpgaqH-cKuqvfKr1NL-yudg-----Don't forget to check out our Official website!www.thebrokensword.co.ukIf you want to support the channel, you can help us on our Patreon page. Sauron once again lay dormant for over a millennium in the Second Age, secretly preparing another attempt to take over Middle-earth. If you preorder a special airline meal (e.g. These are not some sort of machine gun, or beam weapon that is just leveled at the enemy, by anyone who happens to wear them. We dont know if the Stranger will make it to his destination and the show could certainly deviate from lore or invent new history ( as it has done already). He easily would have had mastery over the ring itself. There's a moment near the end of The Two Towers when one of the Nazgul comes literally within arms' reach of the Ring.It happens in the ruined city of Osgiliath. When Gandalf sent Frodo and the Hobbits to Bree in The Lord of the Rings' opening act, he had the fullest intent of meeting them there. If any being who had the power to use the Ring to its full potential had gotten ahold of it, that being would have been able to easily take on Sauron. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. The Rise Of LOTR's Witch-king Of Angmar. I suspect that most of us think Saruman's treachery is so fundamental to Lord of the Rings, that it is almost impossible to imagine the epic without it. What video game is Charlie playing in Poker Face S01E07? His Spirit would continue in some astral realm, and would use His real weapon: TIME. I never really understood how they fit into the picture - I presume the nine gave to their bearers some ability, but ultimately corrupted them and turned them into the nazgul, which I guess was their purpose. A normal man with a normal sword would probably have failed miserably even if he had got in the lucky hit. The White Wizard truly believed that he could resist both the dark lord's power and then, when in possession of it, the lure of the Ring of Power. By the time of The Lord of the Rings, Saruman has become jealous of Sauron's power (and Gandalf's too). He now lives with his family in Lynchburg VA and is an avid outdoorsman. Let's first look at what would happen if Saruman succeeded, and then at his strategy for defeating Sauron. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. What money is available for senior citizens? You are using an out of date browser. The situation in The Lord of the Rings was pretty dire. Covering the hottest movie and TV topics that fans want. I would have thought that they would have been used against Sauron if at all possible while he didnt have the one. Was he not already the warlord of a growing realm, a commander of orcs and men? Narsil was made by the dwarves not elves. So, it seems Sauron is not invincible, even with the ring, much less against it. "In a hole in the ground there lived a rabbit? Either way, the good guys loose big. Imagine that, after breaking of Fellowship, Saruman`s Uruk-Hai capture Frodo and bring him, with the ring, to Isengard. These cookies ensure basic functionalities and security features of the website, anonymously. In Tolkiens writings, they came across the sea. At the beginning of the story, Saruman is more powerful than Gandalf. If Saruman had not been corrupted in the first place, the war might have gone much easier for the Free Peoples. Although they did oppose the will of Sauron, while he did not have the one, they were still subject to his will, if he regained it, and all that had been done with them would be revealed. We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. By Luka Glavas / February 5, 2022. Since the One Ring is a part of Sauron it could only ever reach its full power under Sauron's control. In what way? Please message us if we have not credited you! There would have been no need to send an army; this would have been a one-on-one contest in Orthanc. Imagine that, after breaking of Fellowship, Saruman`s Uruk-Hai capture Frodo and bring him, with the ring, to Isengard. However, Gandalf knew that if he being an extremely powerful Maiar just like Sauron had taken the One Ring, he would become no different than the Dark Lord. Sauron w. We know of his ultimate betrayal against Middle-earth, maybe especially against his fellow Wizards and the Valar. He wanted to inform Saruman the White -- who was head of the White Council -- that he had found Sauron's One Ring hidden away in the Shire. He could turn invisible and go slowly crazy, which seem to be the width of the one ring's powers. The orcs likely would have gotten to Isengard the next day or so or met Saruman on the way as he or his image was seen by Aragorn and Company on the evening of the 30th. There was a Winged Nazgul operating near the area as well on the other side of the Anduin and thus closer to Frodo. After his friendship with Nori, that would hurt. They were basically the teachers pet ones who lived closest to the Valar and did not trouble themselves (except once) with the problems of Middle-Earth. The One Ring has a number of powers and depending on what information (particularly regarding the Middle Earth RPG) you will get very vague to very specific capabilties for the One Ring. Had Isuldur done the wise thing, and pitched that sucker in the crack of doom, that would have been it. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Unfortunately, the woman did not remember the name of the stone and we will be in St. Thomas next week (YEAY) so I was wondering if anyone had any idea what this stone . Does it shoot bolts of kickarse out of it's hilt? For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. It only takes a minute to sign up. As Istari, they were to exhort the free peoples of the world in preparation for a possible future conflict with Sauron. In the chaos Eomer created, two hobbits managed to escape with the help of a greedy orc and met with an ancient being which in turn led to the ruin of Saruman. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Gandalf, however, likely took Saruman's position, not knowing that Saruman had invented the story of it washing out to sea and was looking for the One Ring for himself. You also have the option to opt-out of these cookies. Balrogs are intelligent sentient beings. It's possible Saruman would have been able to defeat Sauron. Gandalf feared the power the ring would give him. Doom to be destroyed and not taken to be used by some great leader. Sauron originally made the One Ring to enhance his ability to influence and suppress or control the wills of other beings, specifically the Children of Ilvatar (Elves, Dwarves, and Men). See Palantr Wikipedia . We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup, Latest Blog Post: Jacks Bad Movies Black Adam (2022). I don't think it would have made Saruman invincible, and, after all, he still would still have had to contend for instance with Treebeard and the Ents, as well as with Sauron. By clicking Accept All, you consent to the use of ALL the cookies. By the time we meet Saruman in The Lord of the Rings, hes up to no good. How could Sauron defeat Saruman, or even pay him a visit if he's disembodied? The Palantri. Gandalf wasn't even sure if he would be able to break his staff in The Return of the King, and that was a very weakened version of Saruman. Through them Tolkien shows Faramir and Eomer's quality was in not being blind followers of loyalty and obedience to king and father but seeing a bigger picture and being obedient to a greater purpose. **Chief among the powers of the ring that were feared by the White Council was the fact that if Sauron put it on now, all that had been done by the Wise using the three rings would be revealed to him, as would their minds, if they did not take off the rings. If a law is new but its interpretation is vague, can the courts directly ask the drafters the intent and official interpretation of their law? But if Eomer hadn't disobeyed orders? (Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age, The Silmarillion as far as the quoted material here goes). But what if the Stranger is a different wizard we all know from The Lord of the Rings? The three, which Celebrimbor made, were not made to gain dominion over others. Saruman arrived in Middle-earth midway through the Third Age, along with Gandalf and Radagast. One other Seeing Stone has been accounted for: the Stone of Minas Anor. Middle-earth & J.R.R. Sauron was much the stronger, but a lot of his power is in the ring. That makes Gandalf more or less like we know him from The Lord of the Rings, thousands of years in the future. First its a lucky hit, now its a super-human with a magical super-sword? ncdu: What's going on with this second size column? It might be that if Saruman had the Ring he would, in a Maiar way, then become Sauron in the same way. Remember, the greater part of Saurons strength was poured into the ring. First off, it gives us an idea of how dangerous the Ring is- if the head of the Istari and White Council can .